Most of us say that animals cannot speak. But they speak to us all the time. The only thing is that we don’t really listen. But we must listen to animals, not just for their sake but for ours because there is a limit on how far we can use the planet and its natural resources. In this conversation with Adam Ferner and Darren Chetty from the “Do You Even Vegan?” podcast, Dutch artist, writer, and philosopher Eva Meijer will consider how we can redefine our relationship with other animals, showing that their voices should be taken into account as the starting point for a new interspecies democracy. Meijer’s relational vision offers new tools for critiquing our use of animals as property that extends far beyond traditional rights-based arguments.

Eva Meijer is an artist and postdoctoral researcher at Wageningen University in the Netherlands, and the author of many books, including Animal Languages and When Animals Speak, both published in 2019. evameijer.nl / @meijereva

Adam Ferner has worked in academic philosophy both in France and the UK, but much prefers working outside academia in youth centres and other alternative learning spaces. He has published widely in philosophical and popular journals and is currently writing his fifth book, Philosophical Empire with Chris Meyns, forthcoming later this year. He is an associate editor of the Forum’s Essays, and a member of the Changelings, a North London fiction collaboration. adamferner.com

Darren Chetty is a writer and Teaching Fellow at University College London. He has published academic work on philosophy, education, racism, children’s literature and hip-hop culture. His latest book (co-written with Adam Ferner) How to Disagree: Negotiate Difference in a Divided Worldwas published last year. @rapclassroom